GailHullingsCobleigh
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Old Shamrock Neighborhoods - 2008/01/06 21:02
Bob has asked us to let him know if we would like to set up new categories for the Discussion Forums. One new category I think would be of interest to everyone is a section where we can talk about our old neighborhoods. I've noticed that the elementary school threads really tweak people's memories, and our different neighborhoods were a part of growing up. So I'm gonna get this started -- let's see where this goes!
Maybe Bob will set us up a special spot? At least divided into elementary districts? 
On Christmas Day, Hank and I rode through several of the old neighborhoods. There were a few things we were looking for specifically (like the wetlands park between Medlock and North DeKalb Mall) but we were mostly refreshing our memories. We live in Dacula now, but my sister Jansie is in downtown Decatur, and my mother lives in Lindmoor Estates, so we get down there on a regular basis, unlike some of you who are out-of-state...
Right off the bat, we could pull out these neighborhoods: Lindmoor Estates, Valley Brook (Estates?), Pine Glen, Medlock, Willivee, Hudson Woods, Springbrook, Country Squire, Edinburg (sp?) Estates...ya'll add to the list, please...and obviously there's some overlap...and not everyone lived in subdivisions, so there's "Pea Ridge" area, "North Druid Hills" area, etc. Whatever works? 
I've been talking with Susan Pass Livingston and Joy Clack (and of course, Janice Wilson, our Pea Ridge authority...) about the Hudson Woods subdivision and the area around Rehoboth. On Christmas Day we drove my old Rehoboth bus route and checked out some local geography issues I'd been wondering about.
Joy's mother has been a fountain of information, and Joy has given me permission to post our PMs, so stay tuned -- I'll begin with an in-depth tale about the Clack family and their part in the history of Pea Ridge (and let's see if I can get this all out there without a double post!) 
Haven't been to Pea Ridge in years? Take a tip from RandyJ -- print out a map and refamiliarize yourself...let's take a trip down memory lane! 
BTW -- I grew up on Springbrook Drive, which ran between Pangborn and Frazier Rd. Springbrook included Coolwater Ct. and Springbrook Ct. At one point in time, almost every house on the street had at least one Shamrock student...
More to come!
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GailHullingsCobleigh
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Re:Old Shamrock Neighborhoods - 2008/01/06 21:23
First of all, let me just say that if you still live in the area, you have the perfect opportunity to refresh your memory...just drive around, like we did. But a few years ago, when Hank and I first got our new Trek bikes, we did a bike tour of our old neighborhoods. We started at my Mom's in Lindmoor (entrances on 29 and McClendon), then rode through the Valley Brook subdivision, past Lonnie Bowen's and across 29 to Pine Glen. Hank got to do his old elementary school bike ride, and got a big thrill out of a left turn into someone's drive, up onto the sidewalk and around the corner...WOW! he said...wonder how many times I did that in my life? He said it was like a physical memory...the body was just doing what it always knew how to do!
When we rode down my street, my old next-door neighbor, Mrs. O'Keefe (91 at the time) was out front picking azaleas (of course we did this at the very best time!). So not only did we see the old places, but we got to talk to my old neighbors.
Pine Glen is still full of the old names -- check out those mailboxes -- lots of Shamrock students' parents are obviously still living there. Back around 2000, Pine Glen was such a popular neighborhood, that houses were on the market for an average of one week. Springbrook has recently become more popular. Houses that sold in 1960 for $25,000 or so are running around $350,000 these days. The houses were well built, but had aluminum roll-out windows. Seems to be the first thing that goes when they start remodeling...
Springbrook has its first teardown -- the small frame house on the right, just past Wendell McIntyre's corner house, is an "upscale" home now. The Cofer home across the street, on the corner of Sandra lane, has been removed, and the large lot is for sale. Other than that, the neighborhood looks pretty much the same -- trees and birds, lots of brick.
Anyway, the bike trip was fun. Don't know about you guys, but that's how I got around when I was a kid -- miles went under those bike wheels, with my Friskie dog racing along behind. 
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GailHullingsCobleigh
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Re:Old Shamrock Neighborhoods - 2008/01/06 21:37
GailHullingsCobleigh wrote:
Hi Joy!
Hope you had a good holiday. Hank and I drove through the old neighborhoods on Christmas Day -- I'm interested in the original geography of Pea Ridge, back before the subdivisions came in. Talking to Janice Wilson, I realized that the Wilson family once owned a huge tract of land, most of which is connected, or else bought up everything around them. I assume that when you have 12 and 14 kids, you carve off pieces for homesites -- that's how it worked out here in Dacula.
Anyway, we drove down and turned around in your old driveway. I was wondering if your family still lives there, and when the house was built. Seems like it was built while I was in school with Danny. Also, what is the history on the house just before your house, the little frame farmhouse that's looking pretty abandoned?
Janice told me that her grandfather's place was on Hudson Woods and has since been torn down. I can remember riding with Wendell Wilson to take his maid home on Wilson Rd. There used to be a "colored" (note: just using 60's terminology here) neighborhood there. I saw a headstone, and assume it was behind that little family cemetery. I had totally forgotten Moncrief Cir.
Got any info? Was your family involved in building? I'm trying to find out who built the Lindmoor subdivision in the late '50s, early '60s. I assume the Wilsons built Hudson Woods? (As well as Country Squire...Springbrook was built by John Barber.)
Anyway, any info you might have would be interesting. Just curious -- we spent a lot of time on foot and bikes in the old neighborhood, and knew it pretty well from a kid's standpoint.
Thanks, Gail
(reply to come!)
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GailHullingsCobleigh
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Re:Old Shamrock Neighborhoods - 2008/01/06 22:01
And JoyC01 wrote:
Gail,
I had to call my mom to get the answers for you. By the way, I did check with her about the show and tell stories Danny had and she did say our family had shetland ponies and my Dad (who died when I was two months old and Danny was eight) did allow the ponies into our house. The one about the strange people coming to the door, she said was after my father died and they had broken down and wanted to use the phone. She did not like their "looks" and did not let them in. She was there with just five kids and was worried what they might be up to. (Gail's note: Joy is responding to a question in an old thread.)
Anyway, my mother moved to Pea Ridge in 1947. She married my Dad in 1953 - his name was Cotton Clack. His parents Vernon and Alma Clack lived on Frazier Road two houses up from the old Hello World gas station (at Lawrenceville Hwy). (Gail's note: Joy will later retract this info on Hello World.) My grandfather was a framer and they had eight kids. I believed my Dad might have been number three or four (not sure). My dad and his four brothers all were in the construction business in some fashion. My Dad was the first to become a "builder".
That's the background...Janice Wilson's grandfather was Colie Wilson who lived on Hudson Road before you got to Wilson Road. His property went from the old shop to where the Lockwoods' house is. (Colie's daughter Doris married a Lockwood.) This would be maybe four houses down on the right side of the road. She did not believe that Colie owned that much property. She also said that Colie was a framer rather than builder. She said that Charles Wilson (Colie's older brother) owned a LOT of the land around there and Charles lived in the big white two story that sat on the corner of Hudson and Wilson. I remember that as being our bus-stop to Rehoboth. Charles grew vegetables and then took them to the market and sold them in Atlanta. Charles owned the property that later become Hudson Woods.
The cemetary on Wilson Road was there in 1947 and she does not believe that any Wilson ancestors are buried there. At that time there were only three houses on Wilson coming up from Frazier Road, the third one on the right was Louie (Colie's son) and Nadine Wilson's house(you might know their kids - Jeannie, Carol and Roger).
My Dad bought four lots from Charles Wilson on Anderson Place in 1955 - this is down near Wilson and Frazier. He built four homes there and they moved into one of them. Mom said at the time Anderson Place did not go all the way down to Hudson on the other end. These homes are near the Britenbach and Haralson homes if you knew any of those folks.
My parents with two kids, Danny and Steve moved to Tennesee and went to bible school. They came back to Pea Ridge in 1960 (by then they had my brother John). They bought the land at the end of Hudson Road and built a house. They moved in December 1960. THe land was purchased from the man next door (the one you said looked abandoned). He was named Hoyt Dunahoo and he was married to Charles and Colie Wilson's sister. Oh and by the way, Mr. Dunahoo's son, "Ruck" still lives there - NOW.
Sometime after they moved in, a group of four or five Fortenberry brothers from Clarkston came in and developed Hudson Woods - she said maybe 1962 or 1963.
Moncrief Circle was developed and built sometime around 1971 - she does not know who was involved with that.
She believes the Ponderosa Subd (near Frazier and LaVista) was built in the late 50's. (Gail's note: Being on the other side of the RR tracks, this subdivision is outside the Shamrock district.)
She believes Lindmoor (is that the one behind the Presbyterian Church?) was built by Lineard Buffington who graduated a year behind her - 1953 - from Clarkston.
She said mostly back in those days, you had individual builders rather than huge conglomerate builders as today. Usually an individual builder could only get three or four construction loans at a time.
Our family moved from Pea Ridge in November 1979 to Snellville. My brother Steve died in 1977. Then Danny and John married in 1978. So it was only Joel and me. Joel drove back to Shamrock for his senior year and I went to South Gwinnett. Finished in 1982.
Oh and about the maid, Mom said that area is on Montreal before you get to the fork in the road at Hudson on your left. Mom's family property there was adjacent to the blacks. She believes that family still owns that land. Mom's family property is where the Windfield Subd is now.
Now, where did you grow up?
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GailHullingsCobleigh
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Re:Old Shamrock Neighborhoods - 2008/01/06 22:15
Yes, she's busy, busy, busy! 
If you're put off by the amount of text, the general gist of this post is two-fold. I'm interesting in knowing more about the history of our old neighborhoods -- who built them, when, and what was there before. I'm especially fascinated by what was there before the subdivisions were built -- most of them in the late 50s, early 60s.
I saw these subdivisions being built, or at least being finished.!
The other thing that I'm interested in is hearing stories about things that you remember about your neighborhood -- the parades and block parties, the boy next door, and what you did with your time.
I don't know about you, but I was out there on bike or foot, and covered an incredible amount of ground doing kid things. Back then we dammed up creeks, dug foxholes in the RR banks, picked blackberries and rode our bikes EVERYWHERE. You can see a lot on a bike that you miss in a car, and when we were kids things like property lines and fences didn't mean much.
And then, of course, there were the kids you grew up with. The ones you played doctor with, got the mumps with, and maybe went on to marry...those are good stories, too!
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GailHullingsCobleigh
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Re:Old Shamrock Neighborhoods - 2008/01/06 22:26
GailHullingsCobleigh wrote:
Wow! That was incredibly informative...and that guy still lives in that house NOW?!
I grew up on Springbrook Drive. We moved in between Christmas and New Years, 1960. If you came in from the Pangborn end, we were the 7th house on the left. When we moved in, the road ended just past the drive of the next house on our side (the home of Alton Cruse, principal of DHHS and later Gwinnett Cty. School Supt.). The rest of the neighborhood was built after we moved in.
I think you've explained a lot about the difference between the way DeKalb was built and what is happening in Gwinnett these days. Interesting that they couldn't have more than say 4 houses going at a time. That meant those houses got personal attention. They didn't cut down all the trees and grade the lots then, either.
I spent a lot of time with Wendell Wilson, and can remember going with him and his dad to a neighborhood off LaVista that Ralph was building. I think he built more than one of the neighborhoods on LaVista between I-285 and Tucker. They are still very nice today. Trees and birds...
Lindmoor Estates is, indeed, the one behind Rehoboth Presbyterian. There are also entrances on McLendon. My mother lives in that neighborhood today, as does Karen Cagle Neel. Trees and birds...
The courts off Springbrook Drive came a good bit later. John Barber was the builder for the neighborhood, with the exception of the homes Ralph Wilson built on the Pangborn end. John Barber's mother lived in the big white house on the corner of Frazier and Stringbrook. She had a billy goat! That's where our bus stop was.
I've been talking to Susan Pass Livingston about the Grizzles, and the bus route came up. That's part of the reason we drove through your neighborhood. I was trying to figure out what was between Tolbert and Wilson Rd. Answer: Moncrief Circle. Also, the small acreage across from Ramonda Boggs on Frazier has since been developed into a high density neighborhood.
Ponderosa is still a very nice neighborhood, but I think they are doing some tear-downs, to the distress of other residents.
I hadn't realized that the original Hello World was at the corner of Frazier and 29. I did know where your grandparents lived. After all, I knew Danny since the first grade! I remember the two stores -- the one on the left of Frazier was a brick drive-through type and the one on the right-hand corner was a frame two-story with an outside walk-up to an apartment. Roxanne Street Schreck can remember when her aunt lived there.
Someone recently asked where the center of Pea Ridge was...I guess it was the old location of Hello World, not the one at the corner of Montreal and 29...and not the Gulf station, which is where I assumed it was, since that's where the Mayor was. Info?
Your mother is a historical gem! Keep her talking!
I hadn't realized that ya'll moved to Gwinnett. I don't remember that your dad died when Danny was in third grade or so...your mom must have had it really hard.
And I guess I do use the word builders loosely -- it certainly would include the various phases of construction -- framing, roofing, etc. tends to run in families, especially when you've got lots of cousins to hire!
I was thinking of starting some sort of "Pea Ridge Geography" theme. Would you mind if I quoted this stuff? The more people read, the more they remember! 
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GailHullingsCobleigh
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Re:Old Shamrock Neighborhoods - 2008/01/06 23:04
JoyC01 wrote:
Hello Gail,
Writing back to make a correction: you were right, the Hello World was at the corner of Montreal and 29, not at Frazier as I had thought.
Mom also reminded me of the Mitchell Market that was on 29 past Frazier at Chewning Drive - do you recall that?
Asked Mom about the center of Pea Ridge, after a long hesitation she is not sure what she would designate as the center. So no help there! Maybe you could ask other native Pea Ridgian(sp?) what they think is the center. Feel free to get any blog or whatever going on this topic. You may get more specific info with time frames from others.
Another note - do you remember Anita Price (1975)? We just met last summer as we moved into a new neighborhood last year. They came over for drinks and while talking she said she went to Shamrock. I did not her age and asked when she graduated. She would not say and so I asked if she knew Danny Clack which she did not. She said she went to school with "a" Steve Clack and wanted to know if I knew him. I was totally shocked since Steve was killed in 1977, I cannot recall anyone asking about him in the present tense. She did not know about his death.
Joy
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GailHullingsCobleigh
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Re:Old Shamrock Neighborhoods - 2008/01/06 23:12
GailHullingsCobleigh wrote:
Was it Chewning? Or was that Haralson? I need to print out a local map! Larry Mitchell was in my class...
I, too, was unaware of Steve's death, or at least had forgotten about it, until reading the Memorial List. My sister, Jan '78 (really '77, but...) knew about it when I mentioned it. I really had forgotten that Danny was from a family of five, also. Steve was the only other one I remembered. (Ponies stuck in my mind more than kids!)
OK, so the Hello World thing has come up before. Janice Wilson has pretty much been our Pea Ridge authority! I'll triangulate on that info...
PS -- Anita Price does not ring a bell...
JoyC01 wrote:
Called the expert and she believes the Mitchell Market was closer to Chewning rather than Haralson. See what others think.
Oh you do not remember my neighbor, well I found his sister Renee Price Sieg on this website.
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GailHullingsCobleigh
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Re:Old Shamrock Neighborhoods - 2008/01/06 23:19
GailHullingsCobleigh wrote:
I need to get a map. I remember Chewning now, it was a short road right next to the brick store/Hess/CVS. The next one down was Haralson.
I think you could drive into Haralson to go to Mitchell's...there was a house between them and Chewning that was something like an old dairy...had a barn and pasture out back (where I used to snitch rides on horses!).
So you located a sister! See, isn't this website great.
So that's all of that!
Note: for those of you who haven't been to Pea Ridge in a while, the Hess station on the corner of Frazier and 29 is now a CVS Pharmacy...and the old Stop N Go is a liquor store!
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lilmytmax
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Re:Old Shamrock Neighborhoods - 2008/01/07 08:56
do any of you remember the gigantic lion that was chained up on the carport a few doors down from the hess ? short story : my sis stephanie was 6 yrs younger than me and spent a lot of time playing alone in our fenced in back yard , developing quite the imagination . one warm spring day , mama sent her out to play , only to see her coming back inside a moment later . mama told her to go back and play , but she said no , mama , there's a lion out there ! mama told her to stop her lying and go play . she did go back out , but kept herself plastered to the house , not moving for what she felt was forever , when she saw it get up and leave . later that nite , my dad came in and told her he heard , at the nursery that the lion had indeed been loose for about an hour and ambled back home ! my sister never forgave any of us for not believing her ! how about the old posey house , at the corner of frazier and pangborn , down a very long drive ? a bunch of us , the phagans,donna , julie swords , (lots more i can't recall)put a club in there , all the comforts of home ! i think we painted the walls purple ! crazy daze!
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GailHullingsCobleigh
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Re:Old Shamrock Neighborhoods - 2008/01/07 10:19
I can't believe it's taken this long for that lion to come up! We've wandered up and down Lawrenceville Hwy., but kept skipping that part.
That was a red brick ranch...I think it was between Haralason and Pine Glen? On the Pine Glen side. Or was it on past? They used to keep it in a small pen right outside the front door. I believe it was a Mountain Lion, or Cougar...(and aren't they the same thing?) I think it was supposed to be rather friendly?
Obviously, your sister didn't want to find out!  What a story!
Needless to say, there was a bit of controversy about that lion. Bet it's in the Decatur-DeKalb News.
I vaguely recall another story about that same house...the woman was turning into her driveway, coming from the east (285), and swung out into the oncoming lane, colliding with a carful of (Shamrock?) students. Some of the students died. Anyone remember that? (I think this was around 1972-73.) 
Where did you live? I passed that house at Frazier and Pangborn every day on the way to Rehoboth. They had a mass of daffodils out by the road in early spring. (And fewer after I passed by...) Remember the story there? The man was murdered -- hit in the head with a hammer, I think -- when he walked down for the mail or something, early one evening. The house stood there furnished for years. There was a piano on the porch, remember? Why did you call it "the old posey house"?
(Of course, it's gone, but I think only one home replaced it. It was had a beautiful yard.)
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SusanPassLivingston
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Re:Old Shamrock Neighborhoods - 2008/01/07 13:51
I got one! Who loved the haunted houses on the corner of Montreal and Lawrenceville HWY. Houses on both sides of the street. I loved them.. Remember Lizzi Borden and her AXE?
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lilmytmax
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Re:Old Shamrock Neighborhoods - 2008/01/07 14:50
gail , i think we were told the mans name was posey (like po-say)and that he was killed because of his political affiliation , that he was police or some law enforcement, hacked to death at that old piano sitting in the front room during a birthday party for himself ! we used to say that if you heard that piano playing , you were next to die ! used to sit outside at dusk and scare ourselves into hearing it ! lol !i think the first one to tell me the story was my next door neighbor , danny or robyn brown and i would have been around 6 or so ! i lived in the third house on the left on pangborn coming from frazier .
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Juliedoe
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Re:Old Shamrock Neighborhoods - 2008/01/07 15:30
Here's a shout out to all you PEACHTREE VALLEY cats and dolls! Remember when Candy Crawford's DAD took out the big Brick sign and we were all so afraid that the gas from the lamps would start a big explosion?
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lewpage
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Re:Old Shamrock Neighborhoods - 2008/01/07 15:52
Refering back to the lion, I believe that it was a mountain lion, but it was a pretty big one. Many a car veered off the highway at that point while craning their necks to see if they really saw what they thought they saw. Anyway the same couple still lives there and are really nice folks. I believe they had one or two kids at The Rock. Can't remember their names cause my mom had some stupid rule about me not playing with anybody that had a lion at their house. Geez!
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